Trust Takes Years. Losing It Takes One Second. | Richard Meng, Co-Founder of Cregis

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00] This is the Crypto Hipster Podcast. This is not a traditional interview show. These are perspective-driven conversations with founders, builders, and independent creators shaping what comes next.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_00] We go beyond headlines, beyond hype, and beyond price to explore ownership, freedom, and opportunity in the digital economy where builders talk freedom, not price.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_00] Welcome back to the Crypto Hipster Podcast. I am your host, Jamil Hasan. Today, we are joined by Richard Meng, who is the co-founder of Cregis and CEO of Cregis Custody FCZ. Richard's journey through crypto industry stretches back to the early days of Bitcoin. Along the way, he's been involved in supporting entrepreneurs, building businesses, and confronting one of the industry's most fundamental challenges.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_00] How do you turn a technological possibility into something people and institutions can actually depend upon? So, today's not about the latest predictions or the latest headlines or what's hot or not. It's about the person behind the enterprise, the decisions, the doubts, the sacrifices, and the experiences that shape someone who chooses to build in an industry that never seems to sit still.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_00] So, Richard, welcome to the Crypto Hipster Podcast, and it's great to have you here. Okay, nice to meet you. Thank you for coming. You're very welcome. Thank you. So, I want to find out first. The first question is, who was Richard Meng before Bitcoin entered your life, and what was happening when you first encountered it?

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01] For me, I joined crypto almost nine years. Before 2017, of course, I'm also in the traditional business. Yes. You know, but in 2017, like there's a chance, you know, in China, a lot of like crypto is booming that time. So, so many of the crypto exchange is coming, like even like Binance. Binance is founded in 2017.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_01] At the same time, at the same time, in China market, a lot of companies, similar like Binance, is startup. It's also a startup. They want to build a crypto exchange. But one of the challenges for them is like, you know, the hike. So, there is security. A lot of crypto exchange always have some security problems. And also, like they want quickly to build up their crypto exchange to launch to the market.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01] But normally, building up or set up a crypto exchange, you need at least six months to be everything ready. But that time is, you know, time is so fast. They want, you know, startup, they want to build up or launch their crypto exchange within a month. So, for us, okay, we're looking for the tech provider. Okay, we're providing this kind of infrastructure for those startups.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01] Helps them like within a month to launch their crypto exchange with security for user deposit crypto, withdraw crypto at that time. So, this is generally that background.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Awesome. So, was there a particular moment like when curiosity for you around Bitcoin became conviction? Became conviction? Again? Sorry, again? Became conviction. You went from just being curious to being committed to being in this space. Was there a particular moment or instance where you said, okay, well, you know, this is what I got to do?

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_01] I think there's no, this kind of commitment time. Actually, once we join, once we do this kind of business as like, you know, we are not like an investor, like for buy Bitcoin to have willing to this booming up or down. We are a tech provider. And we are in one of the very early stage to providing the digital asset custody and technology provider in China market.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01] And soon become, once we launch, we become one of the leaders in this space. And so, we continue to be leading this kind of product and this kind of particular space. I mean, like the digital asset custody and payment infrastructure. This kind of particular, we are one of the leaders.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_01] And actually, we, there's no like a time, as you just said, we commitment. We won't do that. At the beginning, when we do this product, this product already booming in the market. So, with those kind of years in the past, even like nine or eight years, we continue to enhance this business and product. Only difference is, previously, we focused on China market.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_01] But in 2021, 22, and we started globalization, we moved our head office to Hong Kong. And 23, 24, we go into Singapore. And 24, 25, we have set up an office in Dubai. And this year, 26, we set up a branch in New York and also São Paulo. So, what we do is like, we continue expanding the business globalization.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Got it. So, but you started in 2017 and 18 and in China. And at that time, in China, they banned Bitcoin, right? So, how difficult was it for you to be able to navigate an environment where your government's telling you you're not allowed to do this, but you're doing it anyway?

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01] No, that time is okay. That time is good, very good. Because that time is like blockchain. Blockchain is one of the leading industries or technology, innovation. China government at that time is also, you know, very open for this kind of technology. And at that time, it's also okay to do this business there. It's until like maybe around the only difference is like they don't allow ICI.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01] After like, I remember around the 2019, IEO is, ICU is not, is forbidden. As for us, as a tech provider, it's okay. Even a crypto exchange at that time is also okay. And only after around 2021, regulation become more and more strict. And so, all the projects moved to Hong Kong.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01] And Hong Kong, you know, at the financial center, at the window, and still okay for this kind of business. Even like in Hong Kong, we have lawyers, even like the crypto exchange, they have a license. It's launching in the recent past like three or five years. Regulation is becoming, coming, coming. So Hong Kong is still good. Still good for this kind of business. What I mean, like China is like China mainland. China mainland right now is not allowed.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_01] But nine years back, that time is not. But that time is still okay. Got it.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00] So I guess they changed around 2020 or 2019 or so.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Okay. So after that, we ship to like starting globalization. We go to Singapore. We're moving to Hong Kong. And our head office right now in Hong Kong. From Hong Kong, we go to Singapore. From Singapore, we go to Dubai. In Dubai, we also like starting, like apply for the VARA custodian license. So we have a team there. We are also compliance there. And hopefully right now we are in the IPA stage.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01] We already get the IPA in principle approval for VARA custodian license. And hopefully in the next, maybe end of the year, our Q1, we can get the full license for custody. And also this year we expand into like US and the Latin market also. So globally now it's like in this particular business, we are quite good.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00] Got it. Got it. So you, I believe that you, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. You became involved with the Satoshi Block Dojo, right?

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. That time. That time. Okay. That time. Yeah.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_00] So what, what attracted you toward helping other founders?

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01] So we helping other founders, you know, most of our founders is our clients. It's like the crypto exchange that time, or even do the payment, the founders for cross-border payment. And what we help them mostly is give them a most secure environment or custody technology. You know, right now in the crypto world, all the founders always worry.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01] Hey, my, my, my, my, my, my, like my project, like crypto exchange or like a cross-border payment project. Security is always what they worry. Security is always what worry. So we help them, giving them like a security environment about their digital asset. This is the first thing we must be helping them, all the founders. Second thing is about the business.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01] Let them, if they have like a business, like a cross-border payment, that previously they do the fiat payment. Now they want to stable coin payment. Okay. Very fast. We set up all the infrastructure and within a month, they can launch their stable coin payment service to their merchant, to their clients. So make their business scale. Add on, give them the add on a new business like stable coin payment.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01] So this is the two things or two values we add for all the other founders or what, which means our clients.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00] Got it. What intrigues me about that, but the reason why I brought up Satoshi Block Dojo, what intrigues me is back in 2021, I interviewed Richard Boste, who was one of the founders of the Dojo. He was also one of the only people I interviewed who ever thought that Bitcoin BSV had value and was a real Bitcoin. So I wanted to find out what your perspective is on the Bitcoin BSV versus Bitcoin Core.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00] And what did working there teach you about your own ambitions? And what were you willing to think about or reconsider as a part of being that experience?

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01] That's a long time ago, actually. For us as a tech provider, you know, sometimes we didn't care too much about like different different chains, who is popular, who is like scale and whatever is the Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana or Ripple. All those chains for us, we don't, you know, involve too much. For us, we are like a market. What our clients need?

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01] If you need like you want integration with like Bitcoin, we provide you a Bitcoin network. You want right now Solana is good. You want a Solana network? We provide you Solana network. You want like USDT, USDC or USDT payment, USDC payment. We give you this kind of technology infrastructure. For them, it's like whatever is like some of the chains, layer one chains, which one is popular, which one is better, who is in the future will be the best.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01] But in that part, we actually don't evolve too much. You know, we just like a tech provider. We just like care about security, care about what our clients need. And our clients, they may be needed like which token is booming, which token like that, as you just mentioned.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Got it. So you started globalization, I would say from the 2022 onward.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2022, yeah, wrong.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_00] So in 2022 and 2023, that was the days of Celsius and FTX. So the market's crashing. Okay. I'm trying to get your markets crashing and you're globalizing.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_00] So what did you feel was missing in the market with you and your clients that you needed, that you felt that Krieger's had the opportunity to solve and would warrant that globalization?

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01] Actually, like for us, our business is continuing growing. Even the market is crashing. As you mentioned, like the market is crashing. Like even FX is coming. This market is like, you know, crypto world, crypto native world. The business is dropping down. Even this year, like four weeks back or three years, four weeks back in Singapore, we were there talking 49. We found like we joined like talking 49 for many years.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01] This year, the people is less. It's less. But our business is continuing growing because the changes, even 2022, 23, you know, that time point is traditional fintech is coming. Traditional fintech is coming. So we are not only purely crypto native. We are going to traditional fintech. We go to the Money 2020. We go to the Hong Kong fintech week.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01] We go to the Singapore fintech week. Even in Dubai, we go to the Forex, I suppose. We are expanding our business to new industry. We are not only in crypto native. Crypto native, of course, the business is going down. Even right now, you can hear a lot of crypto exchange. The business even shut down. The business like even crypto exchange is very, very tough right now. Now it's like the traditional because the traditional fintech is coming.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01] So for us, it's why we continue globalization. Our business continues growing because we grow into a traditional fintech. We go to like payment providers, crypto capital payment. We go to a digital bank. We go to a forex industry. Those industries are like a new industry for us. It's not crypto native, only crypto exchange, token listing. So this is like the market.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01] I mean, the stable coin payment, the market is growing bigger. Even though the crypto native, now you want to listing a token or you want your token. It's not quite easy already. I agree with you on this part.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00] That is definitely not what everybody thought. So they said institutions are coming. They're going to buy our bags. We're all going to get rich because the institutions are coming in after us. That was the thought and the mindset. And what's happening is very, very much the opposite phenomenon, right? That institutions are coming and crypto native is going down. So why do we have that divergence that is different than what everybody thought?

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, I think the market really is like truly like right now. The market like Bitcoin is dropping down. Now, recently a few days is growing up a little bit. Of course, it's good. Like it's good. But generally speaking, for us, it's like, you know, a lot of like traditional crypto native. Now they are also changing their ways.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_01] Even like BitGate, crypto exchange, like, you know, Binance now also launched like Tesla for the stock market, stock product. And also like BitGate, now crypto exchange, they're also launching the gold CFDs, CFD product. So now like exchange, like previously only trading Bitcoin, only trading like crypto.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01] Now the users also come into trading the stock, trading the gold CFD product. So I think this is a trend. The trend is like, even for us, the crypto exchange, they also, you know, want new users. So they go to the traditional fintech. For us, we as a tech provider, we also need to go to like new industries.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_01] Now we cannot always, only in the crypto native, only every day Bitcoin, every day like, you know, Solana, the tokens. We have to, you know, change. We have to change. We have to find new opportunities, new, like growing. Yeah. And that's not easy. Of course, it's not easy. But, but, but, but, but how do you change?

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_01] You know, you know, you will otherwise like a lot of, you know, a lot of like crypto exchange, you know, like crypto native exchange, you know, like BitMart. Even BitMart is closed. You know, yeah, if you don't change, if you don't change, you're losing money, you have shut down.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're, if you, if when you're responsible for infrastructure that other businesses depend on, right? How does, how does that change your, your relationship with the risk?

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_01] For the risk? For the risk? Uh, I think for, it depends for which part risk. For regulation, I think regulation risk for us, we as a tech provider, we don't have this kind of worry. Mostly like we only a technology provider. And, uh, I think this kind of risk is, uh, um, lower when regulation is coming for regulation risk.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_01] I think, uh, the risk is becoming lower. We are, we are even happier, like regulation is coming, which means, you know, in the past seven or eight years, the change is previously is like, uh, when people talk about crypto, talk about a Bitcoin. Like it's more gray area. It's more gray area. But now recently in the past three or four years, no regulations coming a lot of, uh, like Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai, even us regulation coming. There are clearly some regulation.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01] So in this kind of particular things, people may be more willing to do this kind of business because they think a regulation that is clear. I can't do long term business, not short term business. So this risk, I think is becoming, uh, I'm happy to see this kind of a trend. Another risk is about like a steel. I think in some of the countries still have some risk for some scammers still was there.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_01] Like, uh, you know, some of the exchange or some project is still like, uh, like, uh, like, uh, like a, like a, like a scammer. And this kind of countries or some of the, uh, like, like, like, like areas still have some of those kind of risk. So, so for the investors, for the user investors and, uh, but this kind of things, it is a general market.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_01] It's general market is not too much related with us because for us is like we are, you know, the crypto payment or custodian technology provider. And we don't, uh, reach too much to our users and users and even regulator, like some of our clients, they will apply for the, like, like, like, um, the, the, the, the custodian license or like payment license for regulations.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01] Of course, right now this year in Dubai, we also, you know, uh, starting from last year, we applying for the custodian license. And custodian license is not only purely a tech provider and even some other company, if they, they, they, they, they, you know, more like hash fund or like some of crypto exchange, they are using a crypto card project. They think like they are, they, they don't have a license to holding the fund. So they can, we have the license to custodian their, their, their, their digital asset.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01] So now we also, you know, becoming set up like a new project and for this kind of, uh, regulation trend for in the next, like three years or five years or 10 years, it's another trend. Uh, so, so we have to, uh, general, like we have to, uh, change, change ourselves to, to, to, to more meet the market. We cannot like always holding like the, the old, old thinking, old market.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01] We cannot survive for long term in the future.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00] I think a lot of people should get that lesson. So the old market is no longer here, you know, um, but you've worked, you worked across different markets and you continue to do so. So you mentioned gray areas. So what have you learned about how, how people define trust in those different markets and how do you clean up some of those gray areas?

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Trust is very difficult to, to, to build actually, especially like a long term future privacy. So many of the, like, like a scam project, I trust a very difficult, very difficult to, to, to trust. And, uh, uh, happy to see like, uh, in the past, uh, few years regulations coming. And so a lot of like a big company, uh, and the launching are becoming more and more regulated.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01] So this trust is becoming, uh, more and more person to trust the big institutions. And at the same time, actually, uh, the market, the users is also, you know, it's not like beginning. They are, they have no any of information, no, any knowledge. Now they are also educated. Now, actually, they also know easy to trust a new project. They always say like this project, how long they survive, they have a license or not. A crypto exchange as a new project that like, are you?

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01] So, so even the use the users, they also, you know, become more and more careful. This is a, I mean, for the market perspective for us, uh, still talk about our businesses. Like, uh, you know, uh, we are custodian, like a digital asset, uh, infrastructure. The trust is also very hard to, uh, build because right now all our clients using our, like a wallet infrastructure, everyday transition.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01] Um, and security is very, very important. Now, even for us, like, uh, what custodian license. They watch, think like, hey, I, I, I, I, my, my, my phone is putting your custodian wallet. It's secure or not secure. If not secure, what happened if you, I lost the phone. So security is very, very important for us.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01] So how our clients trust us to use our custodian infrastructure or technology is also very hard. Normally they ask how many years of operation, do you have a license, how many offices do you have, what's your user case? Right now we have some digital bank user case. Globally we have 100 over team offices in Hong Kong.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_01] This kind of, you know, continued branding is showing the trust, to build the trust. Of course it's still very hard. Right now I'm in New York. I come to New York, like now this year we just set up our US office. A lot of people don't know us. A lot of people don't know us even though we are very popular in Hong Kong or Singapore. But we are just popular there. We build a trust in Hong Kong and Singapore already.

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01] But how we can come to US, New York, to build our trust with the US market is also a challenge. It's very difficult.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, it is. I live in Connecticut, which is right outside New York and it's very difficult market. Believe me, I was like, sometimes I feel like a flower in the middle of desert, you know? But what do you do when like your trust is your business, right? So what happens when your confidence is tested and you feel shaky? And how do you get back to being confident again after you've been rattled a bit?

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01] Well, our confidence is like our technology because our technology, we do this kind of things for over nine years. So this is our like a confidence coming from. We are very confident about our security. So this is a basic. Second thing is about our business confidence. We already run this business for nine years and we survive every year. We are we make money. We are not we are not new project, new project that we cannot make money. And we worry, hey, like next year we will die.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_01] We already we already continue to survive every year. We make money, even though not too much. At least we can maintenance our, you know, the company operation. We won't be like worried like next year we will die. So the security, the technology with confidence, the business with confidence. So the rest is like like we come to New York, even come to New York or globalization. It's just a one year or two years like this.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01] Maybe this year, like today we know each other. You don't trust me. But next year I'm still there. Next year you don't trust me. Three years or five years back, I'm still there. Definitely one day you see, hey, Richard, you're still there. I think maybe you are good. The first meet is very difficult. I see you. I know you just the first time. I don't know your background. I won't trust you. But, you know, next year you see me. Next two years, you see me. Three years, five years back, you still see me. I'm still there. I see it. Richard, your company maybe is good.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01] Otherwise you won't survive. Otherwise you won't be always here in this industry.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00] Especially this industry. So. Yeah, exactly.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00] Well, what you said make a good point. So you talk about it. What you're actually talking about, you're talking about not just revenue. You're talking about stewardship, right? So at what point does something you build become a responsibility to people beyond just you and your company? Sorry, I didn't get you.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01] So, for responsibility right now. For us, right now it's like, you know, we do this business for we are very, sometimes we also get a very high pressure from our clients because you know, we do this business for we are very high. you know, it's very hard to build trust. And once, you know, our clients using our service, which means they try us a lot.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01] When they trust us, which means they trust us about our technology, our reputation. So we are very like, you know, serious to keep our clients' security about the digital asset. So this kind of pressure make us keep on like a very serious responsibility, as you said,

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01] like responsibility to keep like a very security about technology and innovation. So this kind of thing is very hard. I mean, like for me personally and my team, I think is very the most important things. Even for business growing, sometimes we are okay with slow. Even like the product functions, sometimes it's not user-friendly or whatever, all the function. First priority, first priority is about security. About security.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01] This is the basic. If we're facing the security problems, I think we die. We cannot build trust. Even when small problems, you know, building trust, you need like one year, two years, three years, even like eight years. But losing the trust, one second. Right?

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. You can lose everything in one second.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00] It's very hard. So that's good. That's good. So that brings up a question about emotions and about conviction, right? So how do you distinguish between having the courage to stand by your conviction, which it sounds like you are, because you have strong security and you're convicted in the way you offer to your clients? How do you distinguish between that and being maybe too stubborn to recognize if you might be wrong about something?

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_01] I'm not sure whether I get your point. I think maybe it's like a gap. Is that like you asking about the gap, about our security, like, you know, some clients maybe not thinking, you know, we have to, we have to, you know, try to make the gap smaller. Even for us, like we are in, we are in our thinking or our reality or security level is this. But the clients were thinking, hey, maybe it's not enough.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01] We have to using a different strategy, like, you know, sometimes it's like the user case, the branding, the license, like, you know, even the sit down, even me as like the co-founder, we, our team always have to sit down with our clients, have some coffee, company, company like we see in the conference, you know, you know, it's still like human beings. The trust is not built, you know, online. Offline conference,

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_01] offline coffee, even some like the meetings is also very important for us to face-to-face, to sit down, to meet, discuss about product, about the industry, about, even about life, right? You know, to try to make the gap more and more smaller. this is always my team always doing. Even right now, our, our,

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01] our security, like, you know, the AI is coming. When the AI is coming, the people is always searching, like, how courageous about our company, how courageous is the performance, good or not, secure or not secure. They're always asking about the Charity GBT, all the AI tools. So, so for us, we also have to give more information, even like the open source technology or some more like a third party, third party, like, like, like, for audit.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_01] For a lot of things we, we, we have to do to, to, to, to build this kind of trust. Yeah. Interesting.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00] I think we're at an interesting, uh, a point now where like for years our crypto natives have been like institutions are coming, it's good. And now everybody's like AI is coming, it's bad, right? What are people going to be wrong about in a few years from now where you were told when we look back and say, okay, AI came, you know, what do you think we're, we're going to be correct about? And what do you think we're going to be, you know, way off about?

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_01] Uh, I think, I think definitely AI will be, will be, will be very important in the next record. I think all the, the life will change, but at the same time, of course, there will be some of the project is also won't be successful. Similar, similar like, maybe like five years or back, eight years back for the crypto, like, you know, it's still like growing. Of course, like a Bitcoin or you see industrial, it's still growing,

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_01] but at the same time, a lot of projects is also dying. It's not successful. So AI, in my perspective, will be similar. Like, definitely, like a lot of projects were successful and it will change our life. And at the same time, maybe some of the project is also like a pulp. It's also, no, won't be, or we also will die, I think.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. That brings me, it's my next part of the question. Yeah. Okay. You, if you could sit down at that table, at a table, say it's your company's war room, for example, and you meet who you were when you first came into this industry, right? And you had opportunities to tell your younger self, you know, everything you experienced since you entered this industry, you know, what would you tell him? And would you be able to, would he be able to recognize

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00] the person that he became?

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_01] I think based on my experience in the past so many years is like, we have to embrace all the changes. We cannot say like the world is changing, the world, whatever is like global business, about global political, or the economy, or the technology, always changing. So we cannot like, my old generation, like my father or parents, always like, this is always in the, you know, like 20 years or the whole, the whole like career is the same,

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_01] not much change. But for us, it's like, the world is changing, like whatever is crypto world or like AI is always changing. We have to always learning, we have to keep on learning, keep on embrace all the changes. Even for us, it's like, why we said like, previously we are crypto native, now we go into the fintech, even future for the AI. We always changing, keep on changing ourselves, keep on learning to the new industries, new technology, and keep on us

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_01] have the competitive, whatever is like personally, or whatever is our business, we still can keep on competitive and to the new comings. Until this one, we can survive. Whatever is like the new, the personal, or the company, or the project, I think it's both very important.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_00] Got it. Yeah. So, I want to thank you. I have one last question. Really, is people, how can people find out more information about Cregis, and how can they become a client, and why should they trust you?

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_01] I think for them to find us is easy, though it's AI. There's a lot of conferences, you know, like the Money 2020, Bitcoin, or like the Token 49, next year we're coming to New York, and we're also based there. And so, finding us is very easy, and the only thing is like they need to be like for us is about their business. So, about their business, about their future.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_01] And, you know, a lot of them now is, you know, previously never like a cross-border payment. They previously did the field payment. Now they want to do like a stable coin payment. So, which means they also want their skills. You know, the stable coin payment is growing, and they also want to keep on their business growing. So, they have to invest, like add-on like a stable coin payment. When they want add-on like stable coin payment, they will have to check, like how can I have the infrastructure

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01] technology provider. They will check through the market. They will find that they definitely only have, they don't have too much choice. In our digital asset payment infrastructure technology provider, globally, the players are only around five players or ten players. But, the good ones only within five. The good players, not too much. So, they will check and compare. It's not like the crypto exchange. There's so many

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_01] crypto exchange, payment, too many. For this kind of particular business, it's about security. It's not too much the players, they can continue running like seven or eight years. Now, as a new player, now like a new project, they also want to provide a similar product like ours. It won't be survived because the people won't trust them because you're very startup. How can I trust you and using your service if you cannot guarantee the security?

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_01] It's very hard. So, I think this is something like when they're finding us, they're using us, it's easy.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00] Got it. Sounds good to me. Thank you very much for your time today.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the time.