Signals Through the Noise: The Hidden Risk in Crypto No One Is Talking About

[00:00:00] This is the Crypto Hipster Podcast. This is not a traditional interview show. These are perspective-driven conversations with founders, builders, and independent creators shaping what comes next.

[00:00:22] We go beyond headlines, beyond hype, and beyond price to explore ownership, freedom, and opportunity in the digital economy where builders talk freedom, not price.

[00:00:45] Today, we're not talking about price or narratives. We're talking about something that's far more dangerous. What happens when the data that we trust in crypto lies? I have Victor Faye from Ormi Labs today. So, Victor, let's ask you first.

[00:01:11] You know, when does on-chain data stop being truth and start being interpretation? Victor Faye- This is, first of all, a very relevant question because this is right following the heel of the recent hack in Layer 0 with Aave, you know, withdrawal, you know, frozen and all that.

[00:01:35] Victor Faye- So, this is crazy because, for example, with on-chain data, right, you know, first of all, one source is RPC. In fact, a lot of the data comes from RPC. Victor Faye- What happened in the recent event was that the attacker was able to manipulate the RPC returning the false data while, meanwhile, DDoSing the other providers.

[00:01:56] Victor Faye- So, in one sense, they end up having bad data and because of that, you know, the hack was able to happen. This is just a, you know, one of the potential, you know, failure scenarios in the entire crypto or Web3 stack. Victor Faye- Let's slow that down for a second.

[00:02:18] Victor Faye- The blockchain didn't fail. The data people trusted did. Victor Faye- Data quality or data accuracy, just, you know, potential failure scenario by what it really truly considered. But I think after that hack, this actually has been at the forefront of the industry. It's a problem that, you know, people actually do not know what's the best solution to that.

[00:02:49] Victor Faye- So people say that crypto is transparent. Is it, is it understandable and transparent? Victor Faye- It is transparent. Yes. And it is understandable. Yes. But when there are hundreds of billions of transactions to be able to normalize and to actually find out what is actually true, what's actually not.

[00:03:12] Victor Faye- That's a non-trivial, you know, infrastructure, you know, to, to get to that point. So in a way it is transparent, but to actually verify that accurate transaction, it does take, you know, resource. So that's the drop. That's the, you know, the, yeah, that's the hardest, difficult, difficult side to that. Yeah.

[00:03:35] Victor Faye- You mentioned Abe. From what I see and from the comments in the market is a lot of people didn't understand what was going on. So when I say is crypto transparent and understandable, we have, we have proof that it's not understandable, right?

[00:03:51] Victor Faye- I think let's put it this way. It's I think you might need something close to a PhD to really truly understand the imparist stack because it is transparent, but it's a very complicated system. All the source code is out there for obvious cases. All the failure scenario is there, which is good. Right. It's much better than like, you know, some, you know, centralized, you know, couple of people making decisions in the room.

[00:04:20] Victor Faye- But just a matter of fact is because this has to be globally resilient. So therefore there's so much complexity built in. And that's why, you know, normally people have professional teams to audit. It is transparent. It is there, but it does take a lot of, you know, mental understanding to really grasp on what's going on.

[00:04:38] Victor Faye- So this is just, you know, in a way the trade off. Yeah. To have something public, but complex, verifiable, or have something that's in the black box, you have trust of an authority. So this is just the trade off. I think there is. Victor Faye- They're saying that that in order to understand the blockchain, you need a PhD. Victor Faye- Maybe not a PhD, but I'd say somebody who tell you they understand exactly all the failure scenarios in DeFi.

[00:05:06] Victor Faye- They understand every single piece of infrastructure that goes on in crypto completely. I think that's a little bit overstated because, you know, similar to the modern cloud infrastructure, right? You know, it's fairly complex, but I think it's a sign of maturity because a complex system is mostly dealing with all those corner cases.

[00:05:27] Victor Faye- So I'd argue, yeah, per transaction validation, whether your funds are actually safe, that is easily verifiable. And it's an open platform that people have been building towards that optimization. Victor Faye- But you're saying, hey, we do we understand. Can we see into the future that the Aave or layer zero hack happened that we could have proven on that in a way? Yes.

[00:05:53] Victor Faye- But you know, that's kind of one of those, you know, surface that people have not really fully, you know, thought through. And so that that's the part is like, hey, you need a security in PhD order to truly understand this. Yeah. Victor Faye- Yeah, most people don't don't have that. And in lieu of not having that, they have to, they have to trust on chain data. Victor Faye- Right.

[00:06:19] Victor Faye- So where where does the on chain data mislead people the most? Victor Faye- So maybe let's, if you don't mind, like, maybe I will kind of come back to answer this question, because I think I have something I wanted to add earlier, like, it's also related to this.

[00:06:37] Victor Faye- So in a way, it's not the on chain data misleads people. It's just at this very moment, right? When you look at on chain data, people go to block explore, people look at hexadecimal transaction. Those are machine friendly, but those are not human friendly. This is not just individual person. That's why every institution is involved crypto, every institution is buying crypto. But they're looking at Bitcoin, because that's easy to understand. They're looking at stablecoin.

[00:07:08] Victor Faye- It's like about 5% adoption. Why? Because it's complex, because you know, the there is a risk associated with the complexity. We're building towards there, but it's not, you know, there yet.

[00:07:23] Victor Faye- And part of that is just, you know, the complexity of the data. Right now when you look at on chain data, okay, there's balance, you have to understand the details of every single smart contract in order to know, to piece together how the routing works and all that.

[00:07:41] Victor Faye- And then you would need the secondary service, you know, to build data model on top, right? Whether that's supplying live data to application as well we do, or like analytical, you know, type of dashboards. But that would also involve secondary human resources to piece together.

[00:07:58] Victor Faye- You know, you know, to build data to the other, you know, to build data to the other, you know, a human digestible data model. So that chain is, you know, kind of that application level of filtering forming data model represent to an end user that historically has been very expensive.

[00:08:18] Victor Faye- Yeah. So, so it's not, it's not, you know, it's not like it's false. It is true. Everything's there is true. There are differences, right? Different RPC provider may be returning slightly different truth, but those can be normalized. But, you know, in order to normalize generate the accurate data model, it does take a lot of resource to do that.

[00:08:40] Victor Faye- You're saying everything, if everything's true, why did Aave, in particular, you might want to use another example, if you want, but why did it fit into the data model? Victor Faye- So, why did it fool so many people?

[00:08:52] Victor Faye- So, the, it's, it's fool the protocol, right? That's because of the protocol had, you know, three or four RPC source that they trust. And those RPCs are centralized provider. When you manipulate two and deny the rest on the application level, when they're doing that validation, normalization, it just attacks surface that they did not, you know,

[00:09:18] Victor Faye- So, that's more like a failure in like the system in a way, like the application level. It's not blockchain level. It's more further stream application. So, this brings you to another kind of point, right? You know, blockchain when the first was conceived is very much optimized for writing. Victor Faye- It's not really optimized for reading. People talk about, oh, how can we make sure one transaction written on there is not being double spent? It's not being happened. You know, like kind of transacted the second time.

[00:09:47] Victor Faye- Say money isn't spent twice. But people really haven't thought about, hey, once a robust application or ecosystem started to form on top, how you get data reliably and verifying that data out of blockchain, that's a whole other piece of complex infrastructure. Victor Faye- Where the, where the hack, where the issue happened. Yeah. Victor Faye- So, and again, I want to get into that. I want to get into the system risk.

[00:10:12] Victor Faye- Says what, you know, it's one more piece of architecture and talking about the architecture, you know, indexing. Victor Faye- Where does indexing sit in the stack? And why is that important? And how does that hope to lower the system risk? Victor Faye- Okay, so indexing is essentially the most critical piece, right?

[00:10:37] Victor Faye- Because the applications we interact, if you're a DeFi user, if you're dealing with the crypto, your lending position, your trading, just anything that happens on the blockchain, that gets through end user via indexing. It's simply, you know, you know, tracing what's happening on chain and present to user in a way that they understand. And then there are different indexing methodologies.

[00:11:05] Victor Faye- Some of them give you large amount historical data generating a snapshot, you know, some of them are reading to stay on top, like within one second, especially you're doing trading. So those are theoretically different architecture, but they're all called, you know, indexing. So indexing is just getting data off the blockchain. Victor Faye- And then if that, if that data, if that first, if that data layer is wrong, right? Victor Faye- Yes.

[00:11:32] Victor Faye- What downstream is going to break? Victor Faye- So from our real experience with the clients, people may have wrong money, like wrong amount distributed if they staked or they participate in some on chain, you know, airdrop. Some trades can disappear. They try to place a trade and that doesn't show up. And then essentially, you miss that.

[00:12:02] Victor Faye- So real money is at stake essentially. Yeah. Victor Faye- So people can lose a lot of money. Victor Faye- Yes, absolutely.

[00:12:14] Victor Faye- This isn't theoretical. This isn't maybe someday. We're talking real money based on data that might or might not be right. Victor Faye- It doesn't show up because one transaction or one block is, is miss indexed. That trade will not really go through.

[00:12:45] Victor Faye- So you're saying everything is based on their interpretation of the data. Victor Faye- It's not based on the interpretation. So think about this way, right? You know, indexing is what data taken from blockchain. Blockchain is distributed ledger of truth, right? Victor Faye- So indexing is this short way. Hey, you know, I'm a trusted provider. I get that data back to user. This is the app that displays the user. The user takes it and believes it.

[00:13:08] Victor Faye- And then you make a decision in trading, right? Based on that data, you submit transaction back to the blockchain. Blockchain is, you know, accurate. But if that data you got from indexer and you make a decision, but that data is wrong. Victor Faye- The blockchain is not going to accept your transaction. So in that case, you know, you will be losing essentially that opportunity, that trade opportunity.

[00:13:35] Victor Faye- And for cases such as, you know, token drop, sorry, airdrop, token distribution, that type of thing. Victor Faye- You know, user will say, Hey, you know, you give me the wrong amount or I put down this amount. Victor Faye- So user would end up disputing with application application, application have to spend more money and double verify what's that transaction.

[00:13:55] Victor Faye- So all that is additional cost essentially. I mean, your money is still there on the blockchain. It's just like when it's time sensitive, or when the data is wrong, you have to spend more money to validate that. Victor Faye- So I know Bitcoin is supposed to be fancy fragile, right?

[00:14:18] Victor Faye- And there's been recent concern that DeFi itself is very fragile instead. So how, how fragile is the system? If something upstream such as data or indexing or anything else shifts? How fragile is DeFi? And how sustainable is that?

[00:14:42] Victor Faye- I think it's less fragile than the straight of hormones right now, because that can be for whatever geopolitical issue that can be interrupted. So I'm bringing this example up. You know, it's actually in a way it's Victor Faye- Similar to blockchain, right? So yeah, looking blockchain is decentralized, all your money is safe on blockchain. Victor Faye- But there's a bunch of chains or supply chain right to get to the final application to work. Any of that supply chain can break.

[00:15:10] Victor Faye- The good thing is there have been, you know, a few like, you know, major providers, any of those, you know, supply chain, so but any of them can break. So it's a you can say if you ask me the honest opinion, it's as fragile, or as, you know, accurate as resilient as any of those supply chain vendors or infrastructure providers are. Hence, that's why you know, for DGENs, you know, people just, you know,

[00:15:40] Victor Faye- Blimey trust or they think this will not happen to them. But as blockchain or crypto gets into more institution, there's going to be more other requirements, there's going to be more oversights. Victor Faye- Yeah, so no, just kind of to secure that, you know, supply chain infrastructure, supply chain risk to make sure that doesn't happen. But as with all financial systems, right, you know, Victor Faye- Global financial crisis, even bankers on Wall Street due to greed or whatever, they can create a systematic risk.

[00:16:09] Victor Faye- That similar risk absolutely exists in DeFi. I mean, this is just the nature of a global financial system. But the good thing is, you know, it's not closed, it's open, right? You know, Victor Faye- For better or for worse, better is North Korea, better is like some security researcher can submit it. You know, a security proposal versus, you know, North Korean hackers coming will also attack. So it's a freefall play field. Yeah.

[00:16:34] Victor Faye- Yeah, you just said institutional risk. And I used to work in corporate America, and I have no trust. Institutions are providing you accurate information. So you know, so you're trusting the blockchain that's provided information by institutions. Victor Faye- You know, how do you ensure the institutions are giving you the accurate data? Are they lying to you? You know,

[00:16:58] Victor Faye- Yeah, well, I mean, this is unfortunately is the existing state because there have been projects, right, you know, such as the graph trying to, you know, set up a decentralized way of getting data off the blockchain with different decentralized way to verify that. And there are many projects that are out there.

[00:17:20] Victor Faye- But you know, the so far, the economics of that have shown it's not really very sustainable to operate that so eventually, you're more or less settled down into a scenario like, hey, who are the four big cloud providers, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, right, you know, three, you know, the three cloud providers. So that's very much is what's happening in the blockchain infrastructure space. But obviously, if you want to go truly decentralized without 100%

[00:17:49] Victor Faye- You know, you know, you know, you know, you know, kind of tied to any registered institution, you can do that, right. But you know, it's similar to how, you know, you can call the dark web or the internet that's not really be indexed, it just going to have a very niche, niche use case. But for blockchain to be adopted by billions of people, there has to be more like institutional scale.

[00:18:16] Victor Faye- And what has shown work is really just centralized provider auditing data out of the blockchain, the record of truth, obviously, that block itself is decentralized.

[00:18:28] Victor Faye- So let's talk about the record of truth, because, you know, we're now taking that record of truth, and we're layering AI agents on top of it, right. And there are these agents are consuming the data. And, you know, a lot of time, the AI is not an accurate representation of the world. So what do you what do you think could go wrong? And are we headed toward like automated decisions based on flawed signals? Victor Faye- I don't know.

[00:18:58] Victor Faye- This is a very good question. And the short version to this is it's a work in progress. So, so you know, when you're at our next, what's coming next is actually we're building like an end to end AI infrastructure, just for blockchain data needs.

[00:19:18] Victor Faye- So in this kind of from our actual work, we've seen, you know, having AI generating smart contracts, that's probably a bad idea. Because you know, a lot of attack surfaces, right, even people's vibe coded apps get hacked.

[00:19:37] Victor Faye- Yeah, I can be good at finding exploits. On the data retrieval side, on the core data infrastructure, getting data out accurately that you might still want to have a human to double check, or AI to validate.

[00:19:50] Victor Faye- But what AI really is good at is once we have this pipeline built up, right, you know, far, you know, getting people understanding what's actually going on blockchain difficulties because it's very much machine language. So what AI is really good is like it takes all that raw transaction, generate various reports, reports that would have normally taken, you know, cost $100,000 just to have one report

[00:20:17] Victor Faye- It's very much more AI can generate 10 seconds. It gives you instant snapshot of what's going on the blockchain. But if you really need to go back and validate, sure, you know, you can spend resource on that. Victor Faye- So that's what AI is really good at generating data producing, you know, the final product. And yeah, and eventually AI will be consuming that report and making decision. And then there's a transaction, transactional process, which AI right now is not really good at, because that needs to be

[00:20:47] Victor Faye- Very fast. And that needs to be, you know, accurate because trade decisions millisecond in milliseconds in sub second depends on that, that you cannot wait for it to go to AI because they can actually screw it up that you have to really have a very clean pipeline or very clean circuit that goes to the end trade application. Because that's actually tied to real time financial decisions.

[00:21:13] Victor Faye- So that is, are the agents actually then since they're not good at transactionally actually, are they amplifying the truth or the ever flying noise. Victor Faye- So right now I would not trust the agents to do trades. I mean, they might be good at, you know, doing macro back testing or analytics or the patterns, right. But the actual placement of the trade, I think most serious.

[00:21:40] Victor Faye- products there are, it's actually the traditional software engineering way. So in the way that AI is very good at giving you the macro trend, but the mic microtransaction I think might might still be be good for a human to do that. But you know, that is changing because there's more and more toolings for AI to validate the transaction truth. Victor Faye- So hopefully later in the future, you know, AI can be 99.9% correct, correct. And it's much better than actually two years ago.

[00:22:08] Victor Faye- So you're thinking that are we are we creating systems that act faster than then we can verify right now. Victor Faye- We're definitely creating a system that's producing more data, actual real data, not not, you know, convoluted or made up data than what we can consume.

[00:22:31] Victor Faye- And then on the transaction side, theoretically, yes, because an agent, of course, can place more trades, right, you know, it's automated than a human ever will. Victor Faye- But you know, from my limited understanding is, it exists on such a critical path, you know, the real adoption that still waiting for AI agent to be a lot more accurate, because you're handling real money.

[00:22:57] Victor Faye- If there is a mistake, right, who's going to be responsible for that. Victor Faye- But for postmortem analysis or pre trade analysis, AI is very good at giving that report, you know, AI could be flagging, hey, now, this pattern happened in the market, you know, do a trade or something. Victor Faye- Those are rest of that is a software problem. Victor Faye- For the for the low low latency stuff, probably AI is not the best right now.

[00:23:26] Victor Faye- But you know, AI kind of alert, hey, either place this trade right now. Victor Faye- You mentioned earlier, you mentioned Lazarus group. Victor Faye- And there that that's just one of the one of the many hackers that attack systems, right? Victor Faye- Right. Victor Faye- If you could if you can name one data level attack vector, not necessarily a hack but like attack that. Victor Faye- Yeah, yeah, what would what would what would that be?

[00:23:52] Victor Faye- So the biggest risk, right, I'm seeing is very similar to what happened with the layer zero. Victor Faye- Right now, because in a way there are data providers out there, RPC providers out there.

[00:24:15] Victor Faye- But they themselves are in a way like the where they host their servers, how they manage security is actually much less rigorous than the traditional, you know, enterprise or blockchain, right?

[00:24:34] Victor Faye- So and you know, that's just a very fundamental like, hey, all the blockchain data source come from say five, six, okay, maybe there are 10 provider out there. Victor Faye- Yeah, so the same thing could actually happen again, right for different dApps out there.

[00:24:56] Victor Faye- So that that's one very critical risk and the rest is mostly just application level, how they decide to treat the data that return to they have secondary, you know, security or validation normalization of the data that they retrieve. Victor Faye- Those are more questions that's up to those individual applications. Victor Faye- So that's why you know, DeFi has risk right in the contrast, the top two or three protocols.

[00:25:23] Victor Faye- The ones that are less rigorous, you know, who knows, maybe they're too small. Victor Faye- That's why they have really been targeted. Victor Faye- Yeah, but but hopefully with all these attacks that standardization will form. Victor Faye- People will get smarter hackers getting smarter, but providers also getting getting smarter. Victor Faye- Yeah, just similar to now you don't really be barely see any windows virus, you know, anymore than like 20 years ago, right.

[00:25:51] Victor Faye- So it's a it's a similar cat mouse game essentially. Victor Faye- I don't I I like the word you used. Victor Faye- I don't like it as a word when it comes to technology and money and use hope. Victor Faye- So hopefully, you know what actually, you know, that major attack vector that you said, you know, nobody's talking about it, right. Victor Faye- But it's actually real. Victor Faye- You just shared it with me. Victor Faye- You know what?

[00:26:19] Victor Faye- Why is nobody talking about that potential failure mode? Victor Faye- And what doesn't that worry you? Victor Faye- Because I think it's the first time it happened. Victor Faye- I really think it's the first time it happened. Victor Faye- Maybe what happens second time, but I think the second time it happens, people will be, you know, be more aware of that and that problem is actually a fixable problem.

[00:26:40] Victor Faye- Because in the application level as long as they add actual layer of verification things like that probably will be patched when will not happen again. Victor Faye- So that's why I see you know, like, similar as you're writing software, there is a bug you may not realize but user uses it and they discover that and that gets patched. Victor Faye- But the problem here is, you know, there is real money here. Victor Faye- It's just an evolutionary process.

[00:27:07] Victor Faye- So I don't see that as a long term systematic risk. Victor Faye- Yeah, but you know, short term, we may cause a couple more hacks, but I think that eventually can be patched up. Victor Faye- So going back to crypto data, that kind of the major theme is like that's what's so difficult about crypto data. Victor Faye- Data is there, right? Victor Faye- Real truth is there, but it's just so much blockchain, so much data on the blockchain to take out the actual piece you need and validate it.

[00:27:36] Victor Faye- You know, that's a lot of work. Victor Faye- And the hack like that happened is because you know, people just didn't see the need earlier to spend more money making more robust to double down on that data integrity, you know, side of things. Victor Faye- Yeah, so that's what happened. Victor Faye- Just the fact that you know infrastructure on blockchain data is very expensive. Victor Faye- It's very difficult to build.

[00:28:03] Victor Faye- So I mean that gun going to your project to tell me, right? Victor Faye- How are you improving this landscape? Victor Faye- And what's the hardest constraint you've had to build so far? Victor Faye- Why or to face so far while building? Victor Faye- Okay, so the funny thing was, you know, talking about back to the RV hack, right?

[00:28:29] Victor Faye- You know, the reason we kind of foresaw that happening is because we during our time working with our clients, we actually encountered a very similar issue. Victor Faye- We do realize, hey, you know, the source data from RPC can be wrong. Victor Faye- So we build a redundancy layer to validate to check to make sure data passed on to client are correct.

[00:28:53] Victor Faye- And as a background, I repower some of the top exchanges that trades, you know, billions of dollars per day, you know, and essentially every 10 seconds we go down or we slip, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars are at risk. Victor Faye- So we have that guarantee we need to make to our clients to make sure, you know, the data has to go through.

[00:29:18] Victor Faye- So part of that is, you know, iteration process over the years, like the shorter version of two things, we need to make sure data is fast and data is accurate. Victor Faye- And we need to turn that into, you know, digestible data to the end application. Victor Faye- Meanwhile, make sure it's fast and accurate. Victor Faye- So it's iterative. Victor Faye- So which means that you constantly improve it with every iteration. Victor Faye- Where were you, where were you wrong?

[00:29:45] Victor Faye- You now you predicted on a you must have been wrong early on. Victor Faye- And when you were wrong early on, how did you how did you face that problem? Victor Faye- What is the problem was and how did that early, you know, not be right on help you to shape and build your internet process for the future?

[00:30:09] Victor Faye- So, for example, in the beginning, like if going a little bit more like technical, right, you know, the what's called the raw blockchain node providers or RPC providers, right, there are big names out there. Victor Faye- Some of them are even, you know, valued in the tens of billions of dollars. Victor Faye- So you would trust hey, because they're big, they will give you the accurate data. Victor Faye- And we kind of initially made the mistake of, you know, relying on a single provider, and we pass the wrong data to the end user.

[00:30:40] Victor Faye- And then you know they cannot give us feedback hey, you know, this is the financial loss experience because of, you know, we trace all the way downstream. Victor Faye- Hey, who's the provider that's there. Victor Faye- So that's what I mean by like, hey, we realize this is the problem we realize we checked all the existing providers in the industry that does initial you know that that runs a blockchain node right none of them have actually accurate data. Victor Faye- So you do need to, you know, do another level of consensus filter normalization.

[00:31:07] Victor Faye- And, you know, that's kind of part of the iteration process that was talking about, you know, we because we deal with such large, you know, number of transactions, and a lot of real money at stake. Victor Faye- So we are able to you can say like adapt evolved building a very, you know, stable infrastructure in this way.

[00:31:27] Victor Faye- But you know, many smaller like that's right who would be our clients who are who have not come to us yet, you know, you know, they probably will have a very much similar issue those people who are trying to do the in house. Victor Faye- But it's just because the scale on their side is not big enough. Victor Faye- That problem really hasn't been like, you know, forefront, you know, on their mind. Victor Faye- Yeah, some data may be missing, but you know, I don't know, it's like $3,000 so people wouldn't care.

[00:31:55] Victor Faye- But it's a different whole different scale when you know, one of your clients traded billions, you know, per day, right? Victor Faye- That's a whole different scale. Victor Faye- What I just heard you say is that you relied on one provider, they were wrong, and it had a massive cost all the way down the stream. Victor Faye- Correct. Yeah. Victor Faye- Yes, exactly. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:32:20] Victor Faye- And a better method is a better approach is to take data from several providers. Victor Faye- So you can make sure there's no outlier. Victor Faye- Correct. Yeah, that's the most foundational basis, right? Victor Faye- So you're talking about like, hey, the first step of getting data out of blockchain is you need to run a node, right? Victor Faye- Blockchain node, or use a provider. Victor Faye- And the funny thing is when you run your own node, it's even worse data quality because of all kinds of issues that can happen.

[00:32:50] Victor Faye- And then the other thing is, okay, once you have all the data read in your own indexer or in your own database, you need to the next stage when you're transforming that data, you need to make sure nothing goes wrong either. Victor Faye- So that's more like a separate layer, the next layer. Victor Faye- So you're asking me what indexing earlier is that in a traditional term, they call it EPL, like extract, you know, transform load. Victor Faye- So you know, raw data into finished product, finished data.

[00:33:18] Victor Faye- So yeah, very critical piece of infrastructure. Victor Faye- Excellent. So most people think crypto's biggest risk is volatility. Victor Faye- It's not. What you're describing is something much deeper. Victor Faye- And that's uncertainty in the data itself. Victor Faye- Correct. Victor Faye- Yeah. Victor, I appreciate you going there with me today. Victor Faye- Thank you very much for your time. Victor Faye- Thank you for your time.